Thursday, October 30, 2008

The Saga continues

Below is the latest in the ongoing saga between a dyed-in-the-wool irrational leftist coward and yours truly:

Jayrock writes:

I never said I didn't understand the constitution. Also I like how Terry, like many other ring wing extremists, with great hubris, insists that anyone that doesn't align themselves with his own narrow minded idea of what an American is, is a traitor and is plotting to ovethrow the government. This also apparently merely voting for Obama makes you an enemy, not of him, but of the COUNTRY.

TM writes:

Above is a prime example of leftist irrationality. Jayrock complains that I took his words concerning himself and followed them to the caboose. To the Jayrocks of the world one can state that he doesn't study the constitution, but if he doesn't say explicitly that he does not understand the constitution then all his statement means is that he doesn't study it; that he can and does understand it without studying it. The Jayrocks of the world believe that they can act in perfect accordance with the constitution without (admittedly) having studied it. If this is true it can be by none other, beyond the miraculous or divine intervention, than pure accident.

Beyond that, after vehemently complaining that I revealed the implied meaning of his explicit statements, calling me a head case for doing so, Jayrock engages the tack of reading into my statements about Jayrock that it is my (apparent) position that simply voting for Obama makes one an enemy of America bent on its destruction. Uh, Jayrock, where explicitly have I said that? A: I haven't, nor have I implied it.

The difference is that Jayrock's statement -I don't study the constitution- leads directly to the conclusion that he cannot understand the constitution (imagine Jayrock's reply to me if I claimed an understanding of his people and its heritage, yet admitted that I do not study the history of the Indian People). Whereas my statements about his support for Obama do not necessarily lead to his conclusion derived therefrom that I think simply voting for Hussein Obama means that you're an enemy of the United States, which simply does not follow from my statements.

Indeed, implicit in my statements about voting for Obama is the idea that one may ignorantly cast a vote for the man without being an enemy of America, avowed or otherwise. If it were my position that simply voting for Obama, or for McCain for that matter, or any other candidate, makes one an enemy of the United States, I wouldn't beat around the bush about it, I'd simply come out and say it.

But when you boil it all down, I'm very disappointed in Jayrock. I was working under the impression that Jayrock, unlike most leftists, had the guts to say what he really feels about America and to stand by those statements when confronted on them. At least that would be respectable. But it turns out that Jayrock is just another dyed-in-the-wool irrational leftist coward who lets his mouth overload his hind parts, then attempts to defend himself by casting aspersions at the feet of his opponents. Too bad.

The bottom line is this, if leftists do not want to be called on the carpet for their statements and the implied meaning of their statements, then they need to exercise a little self-discipline and avoid making statements which imply they are avowed enemies of the United States and its governing constitution. But that, of course, would be inconsistent with a leftist worldview; a worldview which teaches its blind adherents that they should be able to make any statement to the effect with absolute impunity. Jayrock is a good example of how modern society has failed America's youth.

A sad commentary, but that's the way it is.

19 comments:

darock said...

Ah so this is where the imbecile calls home?

I googled Terry Morris, nutcase and blog and here is what I got.

Leftist coward? How's that? Care to explain that one you right wing freak?

Terry Morris said...

I've already explained it, but I'll explain it again for your benefit, Jayrock:

You make statements which clearly indicate that you're an enemy of the United States -- I have no loyalty to YOUR people; my loyalties lie wholly with MY people -- and its governing constitution. Then when you're called on it you complain that that's not what you said at all.

That's cowardice, Jayrock, boldly proclaiming that you have no loyalties to the American people, then running from the statement when someone calls you on it.

Do you really think that calling me an imbecile, etc., bothers me? I'm immune to it Jayrock. Of what use is such belligerence other than to satisfy your own passion and ego?

I'll leave it at that for starters.

jrock said...

Okay, first off, saying clearly doesn't make a lie truth, we can start there.

I find it highly interesting that you have taken my statements on an entirely other blog altogether, refuted them out of context on this so called blog and you call ME a coward???

Look, I'll say it again, I don't have any loyalty to your people. I have no connection to YOUR ideas of America at all. To assume that I'm an "enemy" of the United States because I don't align myself to YOUR ideas of what that means is B.S. How much clearer can that be?

You are not the American people in my eyes. Is that simple enough for you? YOU are the FRINGE.

Oh and Terry I'm sure you've been called much worse A seasoned ring wing nutcase like you has most surely been called much worse. I'm sure you're used to it no doubt.

Your worse than Yeagley. At least Yeagley actually is truthful about what I say and ignore it completely. You are so blind from right wing extremist thought you can't even understand a thought outside your conservative extremist spectrum.

jrock said...

Let's also be clear that you have made the argument on the other right wing extremist blog about the constitution, thereby obfuscating any idea of what was being discussed, which was Obama. You got hung up on the constitution and developed a litmus test. I have plenty of friends who know the constitution, such as I do, but we do not keep it in our back pockets and recite it during our lunch hours. It's not a terribly difficult document to understand. I do happen to have a copy, from my most recent visit to the White House, last month. I got the copy at the White House, in Washington D.C., you know where all the monuments are and stuff. This was after my tour of the Department of the Interior and my meeting with a Senator and a congressman.

Funny how they let such a radical anti-American who disagrees with Terry Morris's ideas in there eh?

Call Me Mom said...

"I don't have any loyalty to your people. I have no connection to YOUR ideas of America at all.

You are not the American people in my eyes."

Ah yes, liberals, all about tolerance - for all those who agree with them and the rest of us can shove off.

Good luck getting some sense into this one Terry.

darock said...

Yeah that's my response to his attack on my apparent subversive and traitorous activity.

Funny how the radical right always takes comments out of context to make their very lame arguments, in this case against political correctness.

I suppose when someone has never left their comfort zones the age old saying is true, ignorance is truly bliss.

Terry Morris said...

I find it highly interesting that you have taken my statements on an entirely other blog altogether, refuted them out of context on this so called blog and you call ME a coward???

Uh, Jayrock, I refuted your statements at Yeagley's, then simply copied and pasted at this site and provided links in my posts (plural). Anyone who wants to read all of your nonsense in full can do so by simply clicking on the links provided. That's not cowardice, it's right wing nutcase efficiency. LOL

Mom, my purpose isn't to get any sense into Jayrock, he's clearly beyond that, which I already knew before I invited him here. ...

jayrock said...

Uh what you did Terry is take my comments out of context, create straw men arguments, tore them down, and declared yourself the victor. Then you posted what you thought made you look good here. Also keep in mind that half of what I post over there doesn't get posted, no matter what Yeagley says. He specifically waits until much later to post anything that I submit.

Yeah, your really brave and I'm such a coward.

Is that really your mom??

Terry Morris said...

Also keep in mind that half of what I post over there doesn't get posted, no matter what Yeagley says. He specifically waits until much later to post anything that I submit.

Let me give you a friendly piece of advice, Jayrock -- Lose some of the angry attitude, the juvenile name-calling, etc., and watch how much better people begin to treat you ... at Yeagley's and elsewhere. Now, I realize you're never going to heed my advice because it's not your style. But there you have it nonetheless.

But here's the deal, Jayrock, take it for what it's worth -- many of my comments are delayed in posting at BadEagle; some of them never make the cut. That's the way it is there, as it is at other places. May as well just accept it or move on.

My rules here for posting comments are a bit more lax than at BadEagle.com. Basically they amount to this: (1) no foul language, and (2) no attacks on my readers (you can attack me all you like, but you can't attack my commenters unless you want your comments deleted).

You may have your full say under those conditions.

Terry Morris said...

Jayrock,

Let me also say that implicit in my invitation to you to bring your comments here is the additional invitation to enlighten me and my readers with your depth of knowledge on the constitution. If you understand the constitution, as you say, and if my understanding of the same is different than your understanding, then obviously my understanding, where it differs from your understanding, must be wrong. I encourage you to show me where I'm wrong.

Also, I'm not trying to be smart, truly, but your argument to the effect that "I've toured the White House and the Capitol, therefore I can't be a subversive" is utterly laughable.

Call Me Mom said...

"I suppose when someone has never left their comfort zones the age old saying is true, ignorance is truly bliss."

Jayrock, I have been a liberal. Then I began to recognize that the difference between what people say and what they do defines their character. I found that conservatives were far more likely to be consistent in matching their words to their actions.

I read the Patriot Post as well as truthout. The only thing I am sure of is that the main stream media couldn't be trusted to print their own daily schedule truthfully and without error or bias. I make a point of reading opposing views just to try and find the objective facts. Then I can make my own decisions in an informed way.

Having read the thread of posts at Yeagly's(Thank you for the link Mr. Morris), I cannot help but think that you are not rationalizing from a factual basis, but rather from the politically correct bias that currently dominates the Main Stream Media.

Perhaps you should take your own advice and get out of your comfort zone.

I am not Mr. Morris' Mother. That is simply my pseudonym for posting.

Call Me Mom said...

Terry,

Just for fun, I googled "Terry Morris, nutcase,blog" and what do you know, the first listing is your blog.

You'll have to lay off the nutcases. rotfl.

Terry Morris said...

Just for fun, I googled "Terry Morris, nutcase,blog" and what do you know, the first listing is your blog.

Whoa! Then I really am a nutcase and I didn't even notice!

Oh boy!

;-)

rock said...

I read other websites too, in addition to viewing the very biased Fox news. I am American Indian also so you might could say I was BORN out of my comfort zone.

Additionally you might think before you post or speak. It would behoove you to do so and not look foolish. You obviously speak from right wing bias and whine about the ever present "liberal msm".

It's interesting to me that there are so many so called liberal msm outlets and only one outwardly biased right wing network. Did you people ever stop to think that perhaps intelligence and success in journalism stems from education and a well formed mind?

Being consistent is not a stand in for being correct. Bush is fairly consistent but he continues to make the same foolish mistakes. What did Einstein say? The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect different results?

Well voting for McCain and Palin (good god palin) for 8 more years would be an insane vote to be sure.

Terry Morris said...

Well, it was a noble effort for a first effort. There may be hope for you yet Jayrock, albeit you still seem unable to resist the impulse to insult your opponents. But to your mind your insults are justifiable, I'm sure.

No one in this conversation is voting McCain-Palin to my knowledge, unless Mom has changed her mind recently, which I highly doubt. But she can speak for herself. Opposition to Obama is not the same thing as support for the other liberal ticket.

Nonetheless, it is not insane to vote McCain-Palin if the voter in question believes Hussein Obama to present America with an existential threat should he become president, and/or, if the voter lives in a swing state where his vote could actually be the difference maker for his state or his slate of electors. And it's certainly not insane to consider an Hussein Obama presidency an existential threat to America.

I do realize, though, that it is your goal to destroy America, as I've already noted, so your voting Obama makes sense in that respect. I'm not saying you're seeking the physical destruction of America mind you, I'm saying that you're seeking the final destruction of America as we've always known it; that you rightly calculate that an Obama presidency (along with a leftist Congress) would likely go a long way in achieving that goal. But we could both be wrong Jayrock; conservative America might actually be awakened from its slumber by and with the aid of an Obama presidency, that is a possibility which others have speculated on. Should that happen then your vote and that of others who utilize the elective franchise to achieve similar ends would prove to be ill-conceived, ill-calculated, and detrimental to your goal. I guess we'll just have to see how it all comes down Jayrock.

P.S. The MSM that Mom speaks of includes Fox News, which is only "conservative" in a relative-to sense, as in relative to CNN, etc. The same may be said of Oklahoma and a few other states -- Oklahoma is a "conservative" state relative to, say, Massachusetts et al. And the same applies to individuals, which brings me to a point that needs to be made here...

A sure sign that someone is a leftist, not just a liberal, is whenever he/she perceives nominally conservative persons and entities (Fox News, BadEagle.com, etc.) to be "right-wing extremists" and continually harps on it. And, of course, leftists generally tend to have a particular talent for being belligerent and insulting, and disrespectful towards those they vehemently disagree with. That is in internet conversations and so forth.

darock said...

Terry I have no interest in "destroying" as you so dramatically put it, America. Perhaps I am a threat to your "idea" of America and that's what you mean. Your narrow sliver of thought is hardly mainstream America. Maybe in section of hard right Oklahoma. I know people from Oklahoma, that are not like you at all so don't tell me that you are in the mainstream.

And yes, Fox is incredibly right wing. It obviously caters to the right. To not see that is to put on blinders. The pundits on that program tend to have the typical right wing bluster and showmanship, minus serious journalism. O'Reilly, Hannity and the people they have on their shows regularly bully people and yell over their answers. I've been studying the network and it's shows over the past year. It's quite a comparison to regular normal shows.

Yeah, the only one who wouldn't think your views are extremist are your own kind dude.

Oh and Obama is a Christian. He may not look like you but guess what, not everyone has to, it's 2008.

Get ready for a new America, the next wave is upon you. Get on or get left behind.

Call Me Mom said...

I wasn't aware that being an American Indian automatically means you have been born out of your comfort zone. That doesn't say much for your dedication to your tribe no matter what your other statements might imply.

You said "perhaps intelligence and success in journalism stems from education and a well formed mind" I would love to believe that. However, I have read and heard too many accounts of respected journalists who were not only ousted from their jobs, but shunned by their fellows for reporting honestly, to believe that is any longer the case. It is a matter of deep concern to me as the MSM is the major provider of information to most of America.

You are right that being consistent is not the same thing as being correct. However, I choose to trust that those who are consistent in their words and actions are those who honestly believe in what they are saying. While I may believe them to be wrong, their consistency is an indicator that they will be honest in their discussions with me and that we can have a rational discussion. Believe it or not, I have had discussions with people who make opposing points in the same sentence and don't seem to understand their own inconsistencies.

Jayrock, you seem unable to settle consistently on one name for your posts. Why would I believe you could be consistent in anything else? (Of course, I am assuming that "darock", "jrock", "jayrock" and "rock" are all the same person posting under different names. I could be wrong and would appreciate a correction if I am, thank you.)

I will not vote for McCain/Palin or Obama. Mr. Morris is correct. I will do my duty as a citizen and write in the citizen/candidate that I believe would make the best president.

You also post to Mr. Morris that: "Your narrow sliver of thought is hardly mainstream America. "and earlier: "You are not the American people in my eyes. Is that simple enough for you? YOU are the FRINGE."
The sad truth is that you may be correct in that statement. I have studied the Constitution and it is my belief that Mr. Morris' "narrow sliver of thought" is far closer to the vision our founders had for America than the politically correct / thought police on every corner / the government is there to "help" us because we are too benighted to stand on our own two feet and too greedy to possibly be trusted with the care of our own / everyone must be "nice" vision that is currently being crammed down our throats. I agree with Mr. Morris that the vision of the framers of our Constitution is by far the more desirable.


The Constitution is our founding document and the basis for all that our country has accomplished. It is hardly a radical idea to suggest that someone who wants to discuss/affect the future of our country study it's founding documents. Nor is it out of line to expect the citizens of a country such as ours ("We the People") to have made a point of familiarizing themselves with our Constitution. I believe our president should know that document backwards and forwards as he/she must take an oath to uphold it when assuming the office.

As for the statement that Obama is a Christian, I have to wonder.
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?." ~Matthew 15-16


Here is an excellent example of that consistency to which I was referring. One of the basic tenets of Christianity is the respect for life. Anyone who thinks and says and votes that a child, who has been born alive in spite of the mother and her "doctor's" attempt to kill him or her, should be killed is either lying to themselves or unaware of the basic tenets of the Christian faith. When you add the lack of outrage in the Muslim community about his conversion from Islam( A crime in most Muslim countries which is punishable by death.) and the practice of taqqiya, I do indeed wonder.

And, just by the way, I would have zero problem voting for Mr. Obama if I believed he was the best candidate. I do not, and that has nothing to do with his skin color.

Terry Morris said...

And yes, Fox is incredibly right wing. It obviously caters to the right. To not see that is to put on blinders.

Jayrock, first of all Fox News is incredibly not right wing. It only "obviously caters to the right" from a leftist perspective. I've already told you you're a leftist and I've given you a couple of hints as to how to identify yourself as a leftist. The only "right" that Fox News caters to is right-liberals, that is, liberals who have certain conservative leanings but adhere to an overall liberal worldview. It would take me six months worth of continuous instruction to explain it to you, and that if you were a teachable person.

...so don't tell me that you are in the mainstream.

Why would you say this to me? Do you not yet realize that I do not consider myself part of the mainstream?

Mom, I'm guessing here, but I imagine Jayrock is attempting to bypass my non-existent comments firewall. Again, just a guess.

Terry Morris said...

Terry I have no interest in "destroying" as you so dramatically put it, America. Perhaps I am a threat to your "idea" of America and that's what you mean.

[...]

Get ready for a new America, the next wave is upon you. Get on or get left behind.


All, a little heads up...

at some point along the way in this discussion (and hopefully Jayrock will stick with us and continue to contribute his thoughts to the discussion, minus most of the insults, of course) I'm probably going to carry the discussion to a new entry on the subject.

These threads tend to get difficult to follow once they've reached a certain maximum size depending on the content, and I'd really just like to rid the conversation of all of the initial name calling and whatnot, which itself is very distracting, among other things. And on that note, I appreciate Jayrock's willingness to honor my request to knock some of that off. Like I said, it's really just a distraction which serves no purpose insofar as the discovery of truth is concerned, to my mind.

But anyway...

The assumption in Jayrock's initial statements which I've italicized above is that I'm being overly dramatic in simply stating that Jayrock's mission in life, as he himself has expressed it, is to destroy America as we know it. If I'm being overly dramatic in my assessment of Jayrock's overall attitude towards America to the minds of other readers, then I would simply encourage you to read further.

It's not necessary to read anything into Jayrock's statements about a "new America" looming. Obviously Jayrock himself realizes that a new America, if and when it comes into being, will displace the old America, or, the America that we've always known, as I put it earlier.

While this process has been well underway for a long time, as many of us already know and realize, the implications of Jayrock's statements above, as I've been saying all along in this conversation, is that his purpose, as a Native American devoted wholly to his People and none other than his People (Native Americans), or so he believes, in voting for Hussein Obama is to initiate the final push towards the establishment of a new America (his words).

That Jayrock is so very nonchalant about what this portends for America's future is perhaps the most disturbing of all aspects of this conversation. He seems to be under the impression that this will all go off without a hitch, so to speak. And he doesn't realize, as I've also pointed out earlier, that if "old America" goes down, his People go down with it.

Now, you can call me racist, bigot, xenophobic, whatever you like, it doesn't change anything. If America eventually becomes a multicultural society in which "whitey" is the minority and therefore no longer governs the country, Americans (including Native Americans) may bid adieu to the constitution, to the skeletal remains of the government which it establishes, to just and righteous government, and to liberty altogether. Mark my words. Indians, at that point in time, will find themselves in a very precarious situation. Jayrock seems to be under the impression that Indians, under such a scenario, will all of a sudden be recognized by the People of the "new America" as the only "real Americans," since they were here first, of course, and since that is the singular litmus for what makes "real Americans", well, real Americans.

Of course those of us paying close attention realize that Jayrock's youth and relative lack of experience is behind a lot of his error here. Actual real-world experiences teach a completely different doctrine than the one Jayrock embraces and conveys. But that all takes time, and one has to be knocked down many times along the way before he can be cured of his gnosticism. As they say, experience is the best teacher.

More later...